Won’t We Ever Learn?

June 22nd, 2006 | Posted in » Baptist Issues

Guess what?

Southern Baptists are bickering and infighting about drinking beverages containing alcohol again. Is anyone surprised?

Why can’t we just let this topic die? It does nothing but cause division everytime we bring it up. We get articles like that written by James Smith in the Florida Baptist Witness, full of strawman proposals and personal attacks. We get heated, wandering discussion on mailing lists such as the Missouri Baptist list (linked in the left sidebar) or in blogs like Marty Duren’s SBC Outpost or Wade Burleson’s “Grace and Truth to You”. What’s the point?

Does anyone really disagree that the Biblical prohibition is drunkenness rather than drinking? Does anyone really disagree that Jesus himself drank wine? Why are we splitting hairs over this, one way or the other?

Isn’t the most appropriate Scripture passage in regard to the consumption of alcoholic beverages from 1 Corinthians 8:9?

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.

We have freedom in Christ, but we must be careful how we exercise that freedom. Isn’t that the bottom line?

Anyway, maybe I’m just a foolish young layperson who is weary of seeing so much bickering and infighting and just doesn’t see the point of further dispute.

10 Responses to “Won’t We Ever Learn?”

  1. By Kevin Bussey on Jun 22, 2006

    John,

    You aren’t foolish. You are wise. I live by Andy Stanley’s “BEST QUESTION EVER.”

    “Is it the wise thing to do?” That is why I don’t drink.

  2. By dave woodbury on Jun 23, 2006

    John,

    I can appreciate and sympathize with your frustration over the perceived “bickering.” And I think that if was just people arguing over the issue of alcohol, it could just be dismissed. But I think what is at stake here is something more serious. Paul, in Galatians, mentions some false brothers who infiltrated the ranks to spy out the freedom they have in Christ and thus make them slaves. I think the thing that is worth foghting for is not necessarily alcohol. It is sounding the alarm when some would seek to go beyond Scripture in issuing a blanket mandate. Yes, both sides might make convincing arguments. Both from what I have seen, both sides admit that Scripture does not absolutely forbid the moderate consumption of alcohol. If that is indeed the case, I think it would be treading dangerously close to legalism to try to make prohibition a mandate that is supported by Scripture and applicable to everyone at all times. That’s just my take and I’m sure there are those who disagree with me. Let me also say that I am not calling anyone who supports the SBC resolution a false brother, Judaizer, or legalist. I was using that passage to illustrate a point, not make accusations.

    Dave

  3. By John on Jun 23, 2006

    The main problem I have with the whole discussion is the amount of division it creates amongst brothers and sisters in Christ. Those that support the consumption of alcoholic beverages are certainly doing nothing unbiblical… but their support becomes a stumbling block to those who oppose the consumption of alcohol. Those that oppose the consumpiton of alcohol are certainly not without good motives, but their position seeks to place extra-Biblical restrictions on others. This is a stumbling block of an entirely different sort.

    It’s so frustrating to me, primarily because we demonstrate a lack of humility and a lack of love for each other in our discussion / debate. If we’re to truly love our neighbor as yourself, we’ve got to place their needs above those of our own. If that means setting aside some of our freedoms in Christ… so be it. That goes for both the freedom to consume an alcoholic beverage and the freedom to abstain… we need to be careful to consider the impact of forcing either perspective on each other.

    So… the best policy? Probably not to have one at all, unless it’s just to restate 1 Corinthians 8:9.

    Of course, that’s just the opinion of an uneducated layman.

  4. By dave woodbury on Jun 23, 2006

    Again, I feel your frustration. The strong arguments on both sides (freedom to do something the Bible does not condemn VS. abstaining voluntarily out of love for the brethren) makes it an issue full of emotion, opinions, and consequences. Unfotunatley, though, even if someone like yourself just wanted to not have any policy at all, you have, by default, taken a position in the argument. The two sides aren’t encouraging drinking VS. prohibiting alcohol. The two sides are allow for its consumption, uring wisdom and love VS. blanket mandate of prohibition. I would be thrilled if the SBC policy on alcohol was simply 1 Cor. 8-10. And I value your opinion, regardless of your level of education. You speak with much wisdom. But then I’m only 34 and show a staggering lack of wisdom pretty regularly!

    Dave

  5. By Bob Cleveland on Jun 23, 2006

    I admit it does usually amaze me when we alternately (A) loudly proclaim Christianity is not a religion (which it is, anyway), but a relationship, and (B) toss down rules like modern-day pharisees.

    The root of the alcohol thing is, well, two-fold: one fold is that people get upset when others challenge their positions on matters related to the Christian life, as it threatens them. So they attack. Fold two is people get a sense of righteousness fron pointing to the rules they live by, and they don’t want their righteousness messed with.

    Neither speaks for much of a personal relationship with a Personal, Loving, Caring, Interacting Savior.

    I’ll say it again. I’m a calvinist and a pentecostal and my thoroughly Southern Baptist pastor and I get along famously and love each other dearly. That can only come from a real, genuine, living faith.

  6. By josh on Jun 24, 2006

    Yes, people really do disagree about it.

  7. By sofyst on Jun 24, 2006

    Correct me if I’m wrong, and I may very well be, but the reason there is so much bickering and infighting is for the very reason that there is disagreement about the Biblical stance on drinking. Some think that the Bible prohibits alcoholic consumption, some think it only prohibits drunkenness. Hence the disagreement, hence the bickering and infighting…

    But I may be incorrect…

  8. By John on Jun 24, 2006

    sofyst,

    In a majority (but certainly not all) of the debates I’ve seen, there is acknowledgment on both sides that wine was consumed in Biblical times by believers. The argument of those advocating total abstinence, in those cases, becomes not that the consumption of alcohol is sinful, but that because of the adverse effects of alcohol on society and the impact that consumption of alcohol by Christians can have on others, it is simply not in the best interest of believers to do so. While I personally agree that this is probably best in most cases, I certainly am not one to impose an extra-biblical restriction on another believer; hence my belief that 1 Corinthians 8:9 is the best “policy” here. I guess, by nature of the “total abstinence” crowd’s position, that belief does put me in opposition to their position (as Dave has pointed out).

    Of course, there are also the few that will adamently argue that wine (in Biblical times) really more along the lines of grape juice. Those arguments (for the most part) seem to be rather silly, in my opinion.

    Anyway, I’ve waded much further out into this issue than I ever intended. Again, my main issue here is the division this “discussion” (if it can be called such given that it’s more of a screaming match a lot of times) causes. I truly believe that if both sides would consider this issue with a bit more humility and with a lot less self-assurance that their position is “THE RIGHT ONE”, perhaps we could see the “agree to disagree” position arise that unity may prevail. That’s so often the best course on issues that are not 100% clear in the Bible.

  9. By Bob Cleveland on Jun 26, 2006

    Since I don’t have any opinions about the next posting, I’ll take another whack at this one.

    The bible does say not to let our freedom cause a weaker one to stumble. However, in my experience, it’s not the weak brothers who do. The newer believers want some genuine stuff, and not the “do’ & don’ts” we’ve been fed over the years. If the bible teaches freedom, they want to know it.

    On the other hand, the world wouldn’t attach any spiritual conditions to drinking, as they cannot recognize anything spiritual anyway (1 Corinthians 2:14).

    Who does that leave? The folks who are bound up in the “rules” .. the ones who probably know a lot of scripture, and in any event, enough to condemn those who disagree with them.

    Isn’t it ironic? The ones who know more, themselves, tell us they are weaker.

    Interesting.

  10. By John on Jun 26, 2006

    I see your point, Bob, but I’d hesitate to label any of my brothers or sisters in Christ “weaker”, even if the Scripture passage uses that term to talk about those who struggle with the exercise of our freedom in Christ. Personally, I’d rather focus on the idea that each of us has things we struggle with, and that we’ve got to be considerate of that fact when dealing with others. It’s just so easy to use this Scripture passage in a discussion and end up offending someone, suddenly finding yourself in the middle of a heated “weaker” Christian / “stronger” Christian debate.

    Yeah, I know… I sound like a politician. Don’t hold it against me… :)

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